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Thread: OT - Agate: what a sad end...

  1. #21
    Distinguished Community Member Earth Mother 2 Angels's Avatar
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    ((((((Hugs to All)))))) ~

    Here's a timeline of events related to the Hart family from CNN:

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/05/us/ha...ine/index.html

    I think there were enough red flags that these children were being abused, especially given the children, who begged neighbors for food and stated that they were being abused.

    I didn't know, until I read the CNN article, that the SUV was submerged in the tide upon impact. Depending upon the current, it's possible that the other 3 children were swept out to sea. The search has to be halted due to expected weather conditions.

    I hope that the investigation turns up something to explain why these parents did this. But spanking a child over the side of a bathtub and depriving children nutrition as punishment speaks volumes about who they were.

    God rest the souls of these beautiful, precious, innocent children, who only knew abuse in their brief lives.

    Love & Light,



    Rose
    Mom to Jon, 48, (seizure disorder; Gtube; trache; colostomy; osteoporosis; hypothyroid; enlarged prostate; lymphedema, assorted mysteries) and Michael, 32, (intractable seizures; Gtube), who were born with an undiagnosed progressive neuromuscular disease and courageous spirits. Our Angel Michael received his wings in 2003 and now resides in Heaven. Our Angel Jon lives at home with me and Jim, the world's most wonderful Dad.

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  3. #22
    Distinguished Community Member Frog42's Avatar
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    How awful. Did they get some financial compensation for letting the children live with them? They didn't seem to like them much.


    Whatever happens around you, don't take it personally. Nothing other people do is because of you. It is because of themselves. -- Miguel Ruiz

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  5. #23
    Distinguished Community Member agate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virginia View Post
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    People sometime get quite a bit of money for taking in children under the age of 18. They might have been doing that just to make a living. A lot of people that do that call them adopted, but actually are not legally adopted. They could have been doing that and using the money for drugs or alcohol or something.
    Vicky, I think this is true. I've heard of people setting up foster care for children and receiving allowances of so much per child, and yes, some do take advantage of that arrangement--take the money while providing substandard "care" or even abusive, harmful situations so far as the children are concerned. The case workers come around to inspect on a regular basis but the foster parents sometimes have ways of fooling the case workers.
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    Distinguished Community Member SuzE-Q's Avatar
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    Thanks for the timeline, Rose. That fills in a couple other "incidences" from the past before this recent spate of concerns since they moved to Washington. I thought it was just one issue back in 2011 before the recent pleas to the neighbors for food in the couple weeks before the eventual tragedy.

    Vicky, yes, that's the question of whether they were actually adopted or still in the foster care system that pays parents and continues to monitor the children.

    It is so incredibly sad. Both parents potentially a part of this, maybe because they knew they were being investigated after CPS showed up? Was it fear of being in trouble that resulted in this murder/suicide? How much trouble were they in? And WHY weren't they feeding their kids?

    I really want to know the whole story, it's so heartbreaking. I hope the press keeps on this. The kids had already suffered whatever trauma that resulted in them being removed from their primary families. But, what kind of situation were they then transferred into that ended up in this? Just heartbreaking. I really hope more details are uncovered.


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    ((((((Hugs to All)))))) ~

    SuzE-Q ~

    I thought that the CNN article was helpful in piecing together the pattern, which I discerned from reading various news stories on the tragedy.

    Of course, this information is the only thing we know about the parents' abuse of these children. Based upon what we do know, I think it's reasonable to presume that abuse was ongoing in the family, toward all of the children, every single day.

    My guess is that the parents knew that they were in trouble. They knew the children had been going to the neighbors, and they probably knew that the neighbors had called CPS. Once the children each told their stories of abuse to the CPS social workers, the next move would likely be to arrest the parents and place the children in a temporary facility.

    Depending upon the level of abuse, and maybe even the length of time it had been occurring, the parents might go to trial and be sentenced to prison. I don't think that the lame "community service" punishment the parent received in 2011 was sufficient to fit the charges. In hindsight, that is obvious, of course. But if this murder hadn't happened, and I knew about that sentence against her in 2011, I would still think that it does not meet the level of her crime of abuse.

    My speculation only ~ the parents knew that they would be arrested, charged, and likely sent to prison. The only way to silence the children was to kill them. Perhaps the parents were arguing, while they were driving along that stretch of road, and the parent, who was driving, decided at that moment that it was over for all of them.

    That's just one of many scenarios, which I can imagine happening.

    Regarding adoption versus fostering ~ Everything that I've read thus far refers to the children as adopted. The children all carried the same name as the parents ~ Hart (ironically in the saddest way).

    How these women ever were allowed to adopt this many children, and evade social services by fleeing from state to state, and taking "road trips," is beyond me. But this is where social services fails millions of children, who fall through the cracks.

    My sons had/have a social worker for the IHSS program and one for the Regional Center program. Both of these social workers have 500 plus cases to address every year. The paperwork for every case is unimaginable. The protocol, the law changes, the systemic changes. Turn over is very high in these professions. Burn out doesn't take more than a few years.

    Of course, our case is a piece of cake, and social workers love to come to our home. What they see, when they visit other families, can be quite unsettling.

    This is why abuse can continue, because close supervision of these families is nearly impossible. And sometimes, enforcing the red flags can be problematic. Where will the children be placed, if they are removed from an existing home? There isn't an abundance of truly loving families to foster all of these children.

    And, sadly, it is true, those families, who do foster, might be doing it for the money.

    A dear friend of ours adopted a child from China. It took her 3 years, and she underwent microscopic scrutiny. It also cost her a small fortune.

    Apparently, that's not the case in the U.S., if these women could adopt this many children in such a short period of time.

    So many children are in desperate need of a loving family and good home, and if they have a disabling condition, the odds are even less in their favor to be adopted or fostered.

    This tragedy just reinforces that our system is terribly broken. And maybe, our society is just too busy and narcissistic to care.

    Love & Light,



    Rose
    Mom to Jon, 48, (seizure disorder; Gtube; trache; colostomy; osteoporosis; hypothyroid; enlarged prostate; lymphedema, assorted mysteries) and Michael, 32, (intractable seizures; Gtube), who were born with an undiagnosed progressive neuromuscular disease and courageous spirits. Our Angel Michael received his wings in 2003 and now resides in Heaven. Our Angel Jon lives at home with me and Jim, the world's most wonderful Dad.

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  9. #26
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    Body of an un identified girl found in surf:

    https://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article...photo-15324392

    ANN
    There comes a time when silence is betrayal.- MLK

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  11. #27
    Distinguished Community Member agate's Avatar
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    At last some information from people who knew the family has been reported. Since some of the children were in their late teens, it may have occurred to the parents that they were old enough to start talking about their home to other people--and that the parents could no longer control what the kids said so easily. The kids were big enough to fight back--or just to walk out.

    And start talking.

    The child who was photographed in a hug with the police officer was also photographed in another public hug--this time from an entertainer, in 2013, at a festival. Maybe that child had a sense that his one way out of that abusive situation was through the intervention of someone from outside. Maybe he sought out those hugs in the dim hope that someone would help.

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  13. #28
    Distinguished Community Member SuzE-Q's Avatar
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    Thanks, ANN and agate.

    Sounds like there was certainly a long history barely hidden, with a few red flags that were just not put together. I hope this becomes a case study taught to new social worker classes to demonstrate how easily clues can be missed to a catastrophic end.

    My heart weeps for these innocent children who only deserved to be loved and treated with respect. Yet, were failed by society and those charged with their care time and time again.

    Sometimes people can be so inhumane.
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  14. #29
    Distinguished Community Member Earth Mother 2 Angels's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    ((((((Hugs to All)))))) ~

    agate ~

    The article you linked matches exactly the scenario that I envisioned with this family.

    Despite the mounting string of incidents, no law enforcement, school district or social services agency ever interceded to the point of stopping the abuse. The parents appear to have been aided by limited communication between state agencies and the fact that no central nationwide registry exists for child abuse or child welfare reports.
    This is where the System failed these 6 children. A nationwide registry should exist! Of course, they got away with abusing the children, because they moved from state to state, and their records didn't follow them. This is sickening.

    No one can explain how they were able to adopt three more children after the abuse allegation.
    Another example of the System failing these children (and millions of others, of course).

    Though the girl said Jennifer Hart was the one who hit her, Sarah Hart pleaded guilty to misdemeanor domestic assault. Her parents claimed Abigail lied and misidentified which mother hit her. Sarah received a 90-day suspended jail sentence and a year of probation, court records show.
    Victimizing the child, blaming her for lying. These aren't red flags. They're flashing neon billboards.

    I wonder whether the children will have proper funerals and burials. And who will pay for that? And since they didn't really know anyone through school or social activities, except for strangers at music festivals and concerts, who will attend their funerals?

    Just awful. And the System has the blood of those 6 innocent children, who begged to be heard and saved from abuse for years, on its hands.

    I weep for them and pray that they are at peace now.

    Love & Light,



    Rose
    Mom to Jon, 48, (seizure disorder; Gtube; trache; colostomy; osteoporosis; hypothyroid; enlarged prostate; lymphedema, assorted mysteries) and Michael, 32, (intractable seizures; Gtube), who were born with an undiagnosed progressive neuromuscular disease and courageous spirits. Our Angel Michael received his wings in 2003 and now resides in Heaven. Our Angel Jon lives at home with me and Jim, the world's most wonderful Dad.

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  16. #30
    Distinguished Community Member agate's Avatar
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    And there's this in that article:

    Calls to family in South Dakota since the crash have not been returned. Both moms were estranged from their parents, friends and law enforcement sources said.
    To be sure, many parents are so toxic that the grown kids are smart to separate themselves, but in this situation it looks like a pattern of this married couple trying very hard to isolate themselves from whatever community they might have had--so they wouldn't get caught being abusive to those kids.

    I've read a couple of accounts (whole books actually) about similar situations. It's frightening what people can get away with in this very mobile society--and how long they can get away with it.

    "It takes a village to raise a child." That's so very true. But what if it's all too easy for parents to detach themselves from that village? Anyone can hop on a plane under a false name, I think, or ride a train or a bus, or drive a car a long distance and easily burrow in in some remote locale--then keep on moving when things get dicey for them.
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