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  1. #841
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    The Bernie Sanders BBS describes and the one I learned about don't much sound like the same person. That's a problem these days....discerning "facts" from "facts", identifying legitimate sources over those with an agenda (good or bad). He is a socialist, and is a populist, to be sure. But I don't consider either of those to be bad.
    ...I am not a doctor nor medical professional, and don't pretend to be one, here... :o

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  3. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by agate View Post
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    I have a number of complaints about Bernie Sanders but was surprised to read in BBS's post that he'd had no real job until he was 40. According to the Wikipedia entry about him,



    These sound like jobs to me, and he'd have been in his 20s. Presumably he held these assorted jobs over many years as he probably had bills to pay like everyone else, and didn't come from a rich family. His father and mother were both dead by the time Bernie was an adult but his father had been a paint salesman.

    Though Bernie Sanders went to the same college I went to, I can't recall ever seeing him there or hearing his name but it was a big place and he graduated 3 years after I did. So he's not anyone I know personally.
    He had jobs, but no full time work until age 40. And they threw him off the commune because he did not do his share of work. And, not that it matters, his peers thought he was a terrible carpenter, and hence the poor earnings.

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  5. #843
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    ((((((Hugs to All)))))) ~

    Perhaps DT and his cronies will engage the assistance of their Russian buddies to sabotage the ACA. After all, they have to do something to destroy President Obama’s legacy. And it isn’t a secret that Putin and Obama were not BFFs.

    Cat ~

    I agree with you that there were many contributing factors to Hillary’s loss (although she did win the popular vote, so I’d add the archaic electoral college to that list). I didn’t mean to imply that Bernie was the only reason. But, in my opinion, he was a spoiler.

    This was Hillary’s moment, and I think nearly everybody knew that going into election season. When Bernie threw his hat in the ring as a Democrat, he rocked the boat for Hillary. She was (still is) imminently qualified to be the President, even President Obama said that numerous times. We were ready for our first female President.

    Bernie brought two progressive ideas to the table, as you said. And he got all of the young folks riled up about free college tuition. In marketing, we used to call these kinds of ideas “blue sky flyers.” They sounded fantastic, but they were unlikely to be implemented. Can you imagine any Republican in Congress voting yes on any of Bernie’s ideas? He’d never get any of these things passed through Congress, especially when the majority is conservative. And not all Democrats are liberal. There are many moderate to center Dems in Congress.

    This is why I didn’t think Bernie would be successful as President, because his ideas would be met with resistance.

    Unlike you, many Bernie supporters were angry and bitter that Hillary won the nomination. They felt “The Bern” right up to election day. In protest, they voted for a third party candidate or for DT. They felt robbed, and they believed that the DNC was corrupt. While Bernie did campaign for Hillary, his voters couldn’t forget him harping on her Wall Street speeches and “militarization,” believing her to be a hawk.

    In this way, Hillary lost voters, because of Bernie, because of the loyalty of his followers and their impression of Hillary as a liar and member of the elite upper class.

    Here’s an article from October 2016 discussing Bernie’s supporters' dissatisfaction with the outcome of the nomination:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...y-clinton.html

    Bernie caused Hillary to lose voters. He may have moved the DNC to the left and shook it up. But he certainly didn’t help her. That’s why I call him a spoiler.



    Love & Light,

    Rose
    Mom to Jon, 47, (seizure disorder; Gtube; trache; colostomy; osteoporosis; hypothyroid; enlarged prostate; lymphedema, assorted mysteries) and Michael, 32, (intractable seizures; Gtube), who were born with an undiagnosed progressive neuromuscular disease and courageous spirits. Our Angel Michael received his wings in 2003 and now resides in Heaven. Our Angel Jon lives at home with me and Jim, the world's most wonderful dad.

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  7. #844
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    Bernie brought two progressive ideas to the table, as you said. And he got all of the young folks riled up about free college tuition. In marketing, we used to call these kinds of ideas “blue sky flyers.” They sounded fantastic, but they were unlikely to be implemented. Can you imagine any Republican in Congress voting yes on any of Bernie’s ideas? He’d never get any of these things passed through Congress, especially when the majority is conservative. And not all Democrats are liberal. There are many moderate to center Dems in Congress.

    This is why I didn’t think Bernie would be successful as President, because his ideas would be met with resistance.

    Unlike you, many Bernie supporters were angry and bitter that Hillary won the nomination. They felt “The Bern” right up to election day. In protest, they voted for a third party candidate or for DT. They felt robbed, and they believed that the DNC was corrupt. While Bernie did campaign for Hillary, his voters couldn’t forget him harping on her Wall Street speeches and “militarization,” believing her to be a hawk.

    In this way, Hillary lost voters, because of Bernie, because of the loyalty of his followers and their impression of Hillary as a liar and member of the elite upper class.
    I completely agree with this Rose!
    Mild Spastic Diplegia Cerebral Palsy and bad proprioception.
    My website for my original short films! http://cripvideoproductions.com/cripsnotcreeps.php

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  9. #845
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    Good job formulating my thoughts and observations. I am a center Dem who never would've voted for Sanders.

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  11. #846
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    LIke, Trumps plans AREN'T being met by resistance? I happen to think tuition free college (state college, and vocational schools) is a good idea. And negotiation before war. And universal health care. And repealing of "corporations are people, too" legislation. And regulations to protect the environment. And PUBLIC vs. private schools. He did bring progressive views to the table, and continues to advocate for them in the Senate...and is being listened to. He, and Elizabeth Warren.

    If you all notice, almost NO candidate running for any office gets her (his) views fully implemented. Words like "compromise" and "negotiation" are used: Idea is put out, then Congress gets to work picking it apart, and if you're lucky, then at least some of it ends up being done. Like "tuition free college" might have meant greater reduction in tuition for state schools, or easier movement between 2-year colleges (cheaper than 4 year schools) aand four year colleges, or some other variation. I agree that a flat "free tuition for everyone" wouldn't have gotten far...but I also think Sanders has enough experience to know that. But if the idea hadn't been floated, no one would even have considered it. Same with "universal health care", and "health care is a RIGHT". Just 8 years ago, before the ACA, those ideas were laughed off anyone's campaign. Then the ACA got formed..and now, 7 years later, they don't seem like such outrageous ideas.

    Yes, I am WAY left. As I think I might have said here, "..I am so far left I can't even see the center!". Not quite, and I do understand folks unhappiness with Bernie....but I still don't think his campaign was all that detrimental to Clinton. In fact, I think it made her positions better. She just had too much other baggage. But that's just me.

    "
    ...I am not a doctor nor medical professional, and don't pretend to be one, here... :o


  12. #847
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    Yes, too much baggage. Both real and fake.

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