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  1. #301
    Distinguished Community Member SuzE-Q's Avatar
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    I don't see an image on your post, Cat.

    Good article, agate, thanks. I too believe the perceived untrustworthiness of HRC is mostly rhetoric and inaccurate, but hyped up by the GOP who really, really dislike anything-Clinton. Yet, she WAS elected twice as a senator, and was popular while Secretary of State. I think if people really thought about it and looked at her actual record, they may feel differently.

    Cat, I agree with all your points too. This is like the westernized, civilized version of the Arab spring. Like Brexit, westerners just vote their angst with the government instead of toppling them, despite the repercussions that will result from what they're actually voting for and where it will lead. I think the Arab Spring gave an awful lot of people a sense of power that they can wield, and see results when joining together.


  2. #302
    Distinguished Community Member SuzE-Q's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBS1951 View Post
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    The average IQ is a frightening thing.
    And yet, if voters only watched the debates and didn't pay much more attention to details or go to their websites to read their platforms or watch the 24/7 news cycle, there was no question that HRC handily won the debates.

    Even that small amount of comparison would have yielded a different opinion, there was no question she had solid plans for the middle, working class and she was far and away more knowledgeable on how to tackle present day issues.

    I mean, millennials watch late night talk - I don't know of a single show that wasn't making fun of the orange one - why didn't even THAT make a difference even if HRC wasn't as vivacious as many would have liked?


  3. #303
    Distinguished Community Member BBS1951's Avatar
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    I know 4 people who voted for him. One was a millennial Hispanic female. I suspect she liked his rude in you ur face talk, confusing it with genuiness.

    One was a blue collar retired woman who gets all of her news for past 10 years from Fox News. Nowhere else. She said she thought he wouldn't do the things he said he would do.

    The third is a middle class 50 yr old woman who is an evangelical, believes the Bible is literal, and gets most of her news from Breitbart and similar on line sources.

    The fourth is a middle class blue collar woman who appears poorly read abut so many non political things, very sweet natured, not religious.

    They all appear to have average IQ. Nothing more and nothing less.
    Last edited by BBS1951; 12-10-2016 at 01:53 PM.

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  5. #304
    Distinguished Community Member BBS1951's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuzE-Q View Post
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    I don't see an image on your post, Cat.

    Good article, agate, thanks. I too believe the perceived untrustworthiness of HRC is mostly rhetoric and inaccurate, but hyped up by the GOP who really, really dislike anything-Clinton. Yet, she WAS elected twice as a senator, and was popular while Secretary of State. I think if people really thought about it and looked at her actual record, they may feel differently.

    Cat, I agree with all your points too. This is like the westernized, civilized version of the Arab spring. Like Brexit, westerners just vote their angst with the government instead of toppling them, despite the repercussions that will result from what they're actually voting for and where it will lead. I think the Arab Spring gave an awful lot of people a sense of power that they can wield, and see results when joining together.
    HRC has a personality where she comes across thinking she knows better than you, like your big sister. And judging from what I see in rural Florida, people perceive her as elitist.

    DT, however, while born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and never suffering from having no money in his savings account, sold himself as an average Joe. And the people bought it hook, line and sinker. There are suckers born every minute, and he knows that.

    I do think people saw his rudeness and mistakenly saw it as genuiness and honesty...

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  7. #305
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    I have no answers for WHY Suze-Q. I think Michael Moore and Cat have said all I could say. I was too shocked at people that I knew were voting for the orange one, and would listen to "no reasoning factors" and thought if I brought any up I was not very bright. They didn't say so, but I could see it on their faces. I saw a man who was such a liar and it was so easily spotted that I could not believe that others did not see this too.

    It is my believe that we will truly never know what is going on in this country "our country" during his presidency. He will own the "news" by intimidation of many reporters, and we definitely will never hear the truth from him. We never have. Besides he likens himself to Puten of Russia who gives no explanation to his people. He is the worse kind of bully and will bully reporters into saying what he wants people to hear. He believes so much in his greatness that who is anyone to question him.

    I do believe that there was a backlash against Obama having been in office for 8 years. I feel that we had a President who truly cared about the masses of people. I do not believe that will happen now.

    I am also appalled at the right-wing Christian vote (Tea party) that he got. I am a Christian, but in dealing with some of these people I have seen a self-righteousness that has turned me off so badly. Not all of them obviously. Some quite honestly believe him to be the best - partly due to their mistrust of Hillary. I saw the head of the Southern Baptist Convention on the news before the election. He said he had seen evangelical ministers tell people to vote for DT. He said he could not understand this, that he understood a difference of policy, but he said these were God's laws. He was referring to the actions and things that DT had been saying.

    I don't know that I will ever understand this, other than to say I over estimated the intelligence of the people and underestimated their dissatisfaction with the Obama administration, who I thought had done a good job, given the fact that he fought against the legislative branch of the government from the beginning. We are loosing a cool head, a steady hand at the helm and dignity, just to be replaced with the opposite.
    Virginia


  8. #306
    Distinguished Community Member agate's Avatar
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    It may not be just IQ. I remember my students, all adults between the ages of 19 and 80-something. These were people who either had high school diplomas or had passed the GED. They were supposed to know how to read and write at the college level and yet there they were, reading at grades 3-7. Some at grades 10.

    A year's work in a remedial course might bring them up one or two grade levels but because of their age they might never have really caught up. The younger you are, the more pliable your mind is, and past a certain point learning a language is much harder.

    With so many people reading at so low a level and yet being passed on through the school system and turned out into the world, I have to wonder that anyone ever understands anyone else in the US. So maybe it's not so very surprising that many didn't listen very carefully to the Trump rhetoric or read the text of the statements he was making. You can't say very much of substance in a Twitter post, either, and that's one of his favorite means of communicating.
    MS diagnosed 1980. Avonex 2002-2005. Copaxone 6/07 - 5/10.
    Member of this MS board since 2001.


  9. #307
    Distinguished Community Member Jeanie Z's Avatar
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    :) All of my family members voted for Trump and several kept sending me Trump stuff. My ex and his lady are the only ones who voted HRC like me. Jeanie :)

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  11. #308
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    I really do have trouble understanding how the far right devout Christian could vote for him. 3 wives, 2 divorces, who knows how many mistresses, involved with them while married, publically bragging about groping and fondling women, doesn't know the Bible enough to be able to quote a single verse accurately. *I* can do that and I'm not Christian!
    ...I am not a doctor nor medical professional, and don't pretend to be one, here... :o


  12. #309
    Distinguished Community Member BBS1951's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Dancer View Post
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    I really do have trouble understanding how the far right devout Christian could vote for him. 3 wives, 2 divorces, who knows how many mistresses, involved with them while married, publically bragging about groping and fondling women, doesn't know the Bible enough to be able to quote a single verse accurately. *I* can do that and I'm not Christian!
    I think the evangelical right revealed their true nature in this election. They had wrapped themselves in their crosses for decades. To me, this reveals them to be filled with hate and bigotry, and a big need to control the lives of others. They're not very Christian. Can you imagine what Jesus would say about DT.

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  14. #310
    Distinguished Community Member Earth Mother 2 Angels's Avatar
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    ((((((Hugs to All)))))) ~

    Michael Moore in Trumpland ~ I highly recommend viewing this film, if you can find an accessible place. It's offered "for free" on YouTube, but you are redirected from YouTube to a different site, so I don't know how secure that is. We bought it on iTunes for $4.99 before the election.

    He swears a few times, just FYI. But he covers everything there is to know about Trump supporters, and why people don't like Hillary. And he provides a life story of Hillary, which is compelling. Not the claptrap that has been focused on her over the past 3 decades. And he was a Bernie supporter, and he didn't like Hillary, because of her Iraq vote. He almost writes a love letter to her.

    Conservative white men feel like they are dinosaurs, per Michael Moore. They're being phased out by high tech and alternative energy. We can't just close down the coal mines, and not have something waiting for the miners in the way of jobs/employment. And we can't expect the miners to suddenly become tech-savvy.

    At the risk of sounding sexist, I feel that some white women, who are married to conservative men, particularly those who are religious, may go along with their husbands' choice for President to keep peace in the home. I have no proof or links to back up this theory. I base it on real life people I've known throughout my lifetime.

    My dad was a Republican, and my mom was a Democrat. She stopped voting, and I asked her why. "Your dad's vote and my vote cancel each other out." I was just a teenager, but I lectured her about the Suffragettes, the freedom to vote in a democracy, the importance of every single vote, and the faulty logic in her reasoning. But she stood fast and never voted again.

    As I mentioned previously, I feel that DT unleashed the smoldering racial hatred in this country, and those, who feel aggrieved by Blacks, Hispanics, and Muslims liked the hatred he spewed.

    As far as DT's philanderings and misogyny are concerned, I'll just guess that plenty of men admired him and don't consider his unwanted sexual advances to constitute assault. For one thing, he's filling his cabinet with serial adulterers. How about the CEO for Burger King? I forget which appointment he just got. Objectification of women is still pretty rampant in 2016, so I'm guessing that a lot of men wish that they could be DT. Ultra rich, with exotic trophy wives. And "hot" daughters. DT even said it was okay for people to call his daughter (something unmentionable here).

    When televangelists bilk viewers/followers out of their last dime, while driving expensive sports cars, living in giant mansions, dripping with diamonds, the viewers/followers believe that they will achieve that same prosperity. Because God wants us to be wealthy. It's a con. And DT is a master at it.

    Just the fact that there was "Fake News" during this election says everything about where we are as a culture, as a society, as human beings. This has never happened to my recollection during an election season. Lying TV ads, yes, but actually making up preposterous stories and spreading them on Facebook? Duping voters, who aren't willing to check out the truth and think that Snopes is a communist plot? It's beyond the pale.

    If you tell people that the unemployment rate is 46%, and they don't check it out for themselves, and you repeat it enough times, it becomes a fact to them. DT did that. He kept repeating that lie.

    Finally, I feel that plenty of DT's voters believed the birther conspiracy, and they didn't like having a Black President, with a funny name, and who was secretly a Muslim, running their beloved Christian white America.

    One of Hillary's qualifications for President is her experience as Secretary of State. But that's the thing the birthers despise, because she served under that Muslim Kenyan. Never mind that President Obama is widely loved and popular, and I suspect if he'd been allowed a 3rd term, he'd have won. Hillary has guilt by association and cannot be trusted.

    In our neighborhood, only 1 sign for a Presidential Candidate. "Veteran for Trump." I couldn't understand how a Veteran could vote for a man, who dodged the draft during the Vietnam War, disparaged a Gold Star family, and bragged about getting a replica of a Purple Heart, calling it "much easier," than how the actual recipient earned the real medal.

    It gets scarier by the day, so I can't imagine what it's going to be like on January 21, 2017.



    Love & Light,

    Rose
    Mom to Jon, 47, (seizure disorder; Gtube; trache; colostomy; osteoporosis; hypothyroid; enlarged prostate; lymphedema, assorted mysteries) and Michael, 32, (intractable seizures; Gtube), who were born with an undiagnosed progressive neuromuscular disease and courageous spirits. Our Angel Michael received his wings in 2003 and now resides in Heaven. Our Angel Jon lives at home with me and Jim, the world's most wonderful dad.

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