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Thread: Politics

  1. #2421
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    Quote Originally Posted by agate View Post
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    The service for your husband must have been very solemn and moving, Virginia. Military funerals are very impressive. The only one I recall watching was on TV, when President Kennedy had been assassinated. I can't forget the riderless horse.

    George H. W. Bush could have had a riderless horse as part of the funeral procession but apparently opted not to.

    As for the Trumps' failure to read along with the Apostles' Creed, I suspect that it is a matter of protocol and was probably all settled in advance after consulting with the protocol advisers. There are rules dictating every phase of these occasions, and I'm betting that somewhere it is stated that a sitting President, appearing in his official capacity at the state funeral for a former President, is supposed to represent himself as tolerant of all religious beliefs (or nonbelief) by not participating in reciting a creed even though most others in the congregation are doing so.

    If he and Melania had recited the Creed, he would appear to be saying--in his official capacity as US President-- that the US is a Christian country, but it isn't and wasn't founded on that basis. That is my guess about why he and Melania were silent. He got it right that time.

    In general, it was unusual to see him having to be just a spectator for once, not at the center of the stage. This time was someone else's moment, and it can do no harm for him to find out now and again that he isn't the only person who matters.
    You have a point about protocol. Trump is in a different position than the other Presidents there. I also think it has to do with which denomination Trump is. I have had friends who are different types of Christian and friends who are of other faiths such as Jewish,Hindu,Muslim etc and they have expressed to me that certain sects or denominations within each faith do not perform certain ceremonies for religion reasons. If Trump's denomination does not recite Apostles Creed than he has every freedom and right not to recite it. Asking Trump to perform a ritual that he does not want to is like me forcing my Hindu friends who will not eat meat, to eat meat because I'm eating meat or force my Muslim friends not to fast. Faith is personal and very deep. I think Trump did the right thing and I do not fault him at all in this instance. To Each Their Own in how they talk to their God. I'm pretty sure Trump and H.W Bush are different sects. I think Obama is also a different sect entirely but Obama's sect may allow for Creed to be recited.
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  3. #2422
    Distinguished Community Member SuzE-Q's Avatar
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    President Obama sang Amazing Grace at the service after the Charleston shooting.

    That's a Christian song.

    I didn't hear any outrage then. It was beautiful.
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  5. #2423
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    I think it more likely that he simply didn't recite the creed. Most Christian religions use both the apostles creed and the Nicene creed at different times, so he had to be aware of it. I don't think he is a regular church goer, though, so might not have been comfortable saying it. I'm a UU. If I had been in that situation I would have been fine singing hymns, Boeing my head for prayers, but would not have recited the creed, either.

    I think there are far worse things to fault him on than his refusal to say the creed.

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  7. #2424
    Distinguished Community Member agate's Avatar
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    I haven't yet found any explanation about the Trumps' conduct during the Apostles' Creed recitation but maybe one will be forthcoming eventually. This article in the Washington Post seems like a thoughtful reflection on the topic--and it expands on a point you made, funnylegs:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/relig...=.f60b34e2146c

    I'm reminded of a hot-button issue that has been around for all the years I've been in this HUD building: Quite a number of tenants are devout Christians who like to put signs on their doors saying (for example) "Jesus is the reason for the season." That is fine with the management as those are the residents' doors. But some also like to set up nativity scenes in the common areas.

    The common areas are the two large rooms known as community rooms, which are there for the use of the residents. For years nativity scenes would appear regularly from late November through early January.

    But then residents were told that they could decorate using religious content in those areas only if a sign was also posted saying that the decorations were provided by the residents--and in that way the management could make it clear that they had nothing to do with them. The decorations have to be clearly designated as not authorized in any way by this HUD building.

    HUD being federal, it would be a violation of the principle of separation of church and state to have religious content in public displays. Applicants for apartments here who come in and see nativity scenes (and every year there are at least three of them prominently in view) might think that this federally subsidized building is actually strictly for Christians -and no persons of other faiths (or of no faith) would be welcome here.

    That's not the message HUD is supposed to be sending.

    Similarly, if the US President appears in his official capacity at a state funeral, it would look as if the US President was authorizing Christianity as this country's official religion. Trump has been under fire for his attitude toward immigrants and non-white people. But this time by not chiming in on the Apostles' Creed he at least made it clear that it isn't appropriate for a US President, serving in his official capacity at an official function, to be stating his personal religious creed.

    Obama singing "Amazing Grace" at a funeral for citizens is one thing but the US President at the funeral for a former President is a state occasion, with every little detail probably spelled out somewhere in the protocols for such occasions.

    President Kennedy's funeral went on for days, and nobody did much of anything but stay glued to the TV, where it was all shown. Explanations of why everything was done as it was were given to the viewers. Heads of state from 92 countries--including even General De Gaulle, Haile Selassie, King Baudouin, Prince Phillip--were present and marching in the funeral procession.I seem to recall that every phase of that very solemn ceremony had to be very carefully planned with protocol in mind. It's this way with the funeral for any former or sitting US President, though the ones who die in office are probably given more attention than the former Presidents.
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